Q — What other mistreatment did you suffer on the march from Stalag Luft #4?

A — There were beatings by the guards at times but it was a minor problem. At 1500 hours on 28 March 1945 a large number of our men were loaded on freight cars at Ebbsdorf, Germany. We were forced in at the rate of 60 men or more to a car. This was so crowded that there was not enough room for all men to sit at the same time. We remained in these jammed boxcars until 0300 hours March 30, 1945 when our train left Ebbsdorf. During this 33 hour period few men were allowed out of the car for the cars were sealed shut most of the time. The suffering this caused was unnecessary for there was a pump with a good supply of water in the railroad yards a short distance from the train. At one time I was allowed to fetch some water for a few of our men who were suffering from dysentery. Many men had dysentery at the time and the hardship of being confined to the freight cars was aggravated by the filth and stench resulting from men who had to urinate and defecate inside the cars. We did not get off these freight cars until we reached Fallingbostel around noon on 30 March 1945 and then we marched to Stalag 11B. The freight cars we were transported in had no marking on them to indicate that they were occupied by helpless prisoners of war. There was considerable aerial activity in the area at the time and there was a good chance of being strafed.

Q — Was the suffering that resulted from the evacuation march from Stalag Luft #4 avoidable?

A — Certainly a large part of the suffering was avoidable. As I mentioned before, we marched through rural Germany and there was no lack of food there. There were always many large barns available that could have been used by us. There was always firewood available that could have been used to boil water and thus give us a safe supply of drinking water. There were many horses and wagons available that could have been used to transport our sick men. There were many men in our column who were exhausted and who could have been left for a rest at prison camps that we passed on the march.

On 30 March 1945 we left the jurisdiction of Stalag Luft #4 when we arrived at Stalag Luft 11B. On 9 March (?) 1945 we again went on a forced march under the jurisdiction of Stalag 11B. Our first march had been in a generally westerly direction for the Germans were then running from the Russians. The second march was in a general easterly direction for the Germans were then running from the American and British forces. Because of this, during the march under the jurisdiction of Stalag 11B we doubled back and covered a good bit of the same territory we had just come over a month before. We doubled back for over 200 kilometers and it took 26 days before British forces liberated us. During those 26 days we were accorded much better treatment. We received a ration of potatoes daily besides other food including horse meat. We always had barns to sleep in although the weather was much milder than when we had previously covered the same territory. During those 26 days we received 1235 calories daily from the Germans and an additional 1500 calories daily from the Red Cross for a total caloric intake of about 2735 calories a day. This is far more than we had in the same area from Stalag Luft #4. I believe that if the officers of Stalag Luft #4 had made an effort they too could have secured us much rations and shelter.

Q — To what officers from Stalag Luft #4 did you complain?

A — I only saw the commandant of Stalag Luft #4 once on the entire march and I was not allowed to talk to him then. Mostly I complained to Capt .Weinert who was in charge of 1C column that I was with most of the time.

Q — Can you describe Capt. Weinert?

A — He was a little taller than average and well built. He was in his forties but looked much younger until he took his cap off and exposed his bald head. He was an Air Corps officer and was said to have been a prisoner of the Allies in North Africa and later repatriated for a physical disability. I never saw any certain evidence of such a disability. He rarely marched but rode in his own wagon. Some of the men said he had an arm injury but I never saw any definite evidence of this. Maybe this was because I only saw him on rather formal military occasions when he would stand or sit in a rigid manner almost as if he were at attention. I never saw him for long periods of time. He spoke excellent English but it was a favorite trick of his to act as if he did not understand English. Usually he spoke to me through an interpreter, but several times we spoke in English.

Q — Are there any other incidents that should be reported?

A — There is one other incident I would like to report. On 16 February 1945 we were on the road west of the Oder River in the general area of Schwbinemunde. I was then marching with a party of several hundred of our stragglers who were tagging along behind our main column. We met a small group of other prisoners on the road. I was allowed to talk to these men briefly and obtained the following information: — These men were from POW Camp Stalag 2B which had originally been at Hammerstein. They were all sick and had left their column to be taken to a hospital. On arrival at the hospital they were denied admission and continued the march with little or no rations. These men appeared to be on the verge of exhaustion. Two had obvious fevers with severe cough which was probably pneumonia or tuberculosis. About 20 of these men were Americans. One had on a foreign uniform and I thought he was an Italian. There was a tall British sergeant with them. One of the men carried a small wooden chest with the name of “Joe McDaniels” or “Joe McWilliams” on it. He told me he had been acting Chaplain at Stalag 2B. Another man was a tall, slender fellow from Schenectady, New York. (After I was liberated I met an ex-prisoner from Stalag 2B who thought this fellow was J. Luckhurst of 864 Stanley, Schenectady, New York). This fellow said he was suffering from recurrent malaria.

These men were so weak they could scarcely stand. The German sergeant in charge of our small section at the time recognized their plight and got a Wehrmacht truck to take them to our next stop. We received no rations that night but did get a small issue of hot water. The next day these men were placed on wagons and stayed with us. They again received no rations and again were sheltered in crowded barns. On 18 February 1945 I personally protested to Capt. Weinert about these men, although he had known about them previously. I pointed out that these men were exhausted and might soon die. I requested rations, rest and hospitalization for them. Capt. Weinert replied that no hospital was available. He further stated that these men were not his responsibility, inasmuch as they were not originally from Stalag Luft #4. I objected to this and stated that these men were now in our column and that he was responsible for their lives and health. He then agreed to leave these men behind. The next day, Capt. Weinert told me these men had been transferred to another command. I never saw the men again, but I heard a rumor that one of them had died.

Q — Do you have anything further to add?

A — No.